Councils running out of grit - what can we do
True grit in the face of snow
Right now, rock salt is a commodity we can't do without: councils are arguing over it, homeowners making off with it, motorists are desperate for it. Neil Tweedie reports on the nitty gritty of keeping the country moving.
The Telegraph
Ice danger for Britain as -17C freezes snow
Temperatures as low as 1F (-17C) have made parts of Britain as cold as Moscow, turning heavy snow to ice and leaving 8,000 homes without power.
The Telegraph
Round the clock working for Britain’s salt mines
De-icing or gritting salt is nothing like the white grains we use to season food. Made from crushed rock salt carved out of underground mines, it is brownish in colour and resembles gravel.
The Huddersfield Daily Examiner
Warning of salt emergency as Britain's 'deep freeze' continues
Emergency measures were enforced yesterday to distribute dwindling salt supplies as industry chiefs warned that stocks could run out within four days if the “deep freeze” continues.
The Government activated “Salt Cell”, which allows officials to instruct suppliers to send salt to areas most in need irrespective of contract orders. If supplies run out, rock salt will have to be imported from abroad.
The move, coordinated with the Local Government Association and the Highways Agency, came as some councils said that they would run out of salt within 24 hours.
The Telegrpaph
Council services under pressure as snow tightens grip on UK as forecasters predicted one of the coldest winters in 100 years. Grit is no where to be seen on many side streets and estates and the virtually ever council in the country is down to their last stocks of rock salt as the Salt mines struggle to meet the increasing demand.
We as residents of our estate now need to pull together to sort out the conditions of the roads. Lets face facts no grit is coming our way, resources are too stretched, and lowly stocked now it's not going to happen.
So, what do we do. Do we leave our roads in the state they're in? Or do we band together as a community workforce to clear the ice from the roads to make them passable.
We've seen over the past week trying to clear our roads, but they need help. They could also do without scorn that one poster mentioned this week they were asked as they cleared the road "saying why do you bother?"
We need every fella with a shovel basically out on the roads after work hacking away at the ice. Doing it on your own feels like your getting know where. Doing it as a big group will get it shifted in no time.
Is any one up for it? If they are reply on here and we'll split up into our respective areas and get "cracking".
One last thing, if and when we do get the grit back, can we be clear about one thing, that grit is for the roads and in places the path way. Not peoples drives. I've had a message in from the site of someone complaining that they'd witness someone take grit from the bin to use on their driveway.
If you want to clear your drive way, buy some grit, cat litter, spread some salt, pick up your shovel, ask a neighbour to do it for you if your unable. We need to start protecting this grit as it's evident it's a useful and precious commodity.
Comments
I would like to see every
I would like to see every resident of each property on both sides of the estate clear the piece of road and pavement in front of their own property.
Once the snow and ice has been cleared, the grit can then be used to prevent the road and pavement from freezing quite so badly.
For some reason a lot of people are under the impression that if you clear the road and pavement in front of your property, then you're liable for any accident an individual may have on that piece of ground because of your actions. Does anybody know if this is true?
Apparently you can be sued
Hi Red Girl.
I've asked on Pits N Pots and Terry (turbo) of the Greenfields (Tunstall) Residents Associationhas come back saying yes you can be sued.
"Webb Monkey,if you try to clean up the snow and someone slips you can be sued, as you have (in the eyes of the law) created a situation whereby an accident can happen."
If that is the case just tackle the road. Me personally I don't think we should let it be an excuse to clear off the ice.
Matt
what a ridiculous world
what a ridiculous world we're living in. what about all those drivers who drive on the kerbs and pavements, and create ice by compacting the snow, surely they too have created a situation whereby an accident can happen, but i doubt anybody could prove which car and driver it was.
My husband has just been on
My husband has just been on to the council about the lack of grit and this is what they've just told him
Hello Mr *****
Thanks for your understanding.
Please accept our sincere apologies for any disruption caused.
Our stocks of Gritting salt have become severley depleted and we have been forced to concentrate on Main A and B roads. We only have current stocks to carry out 2 or 3 more citywide road treatmenats allthough we are attempting to source some grit from other locations. We will attempt to refill all grit bins once we have received a delivery.
It is the policy of the City Council to grit Main A and B roads, we will then attempt to grit Bus Routes and Streets with a high incline. Around 550 miles of road are gritted several times a day, unfortunately the city council does not have the resources to grit every road in the city.
Further disruptions of service will be advertised in the local press, radio and online at stoke.gov.uk
If you are not happy with the service that we have provided we encourage you to raise a corporate complaint by visiting stoke.gov.uk/complaints, emailing central.complaints@stoke.gov.uk, or by calling 01782 234234 stating that you wish to make a 'corporate complaint'.
Kind Regards
Customer Services
Stoke-on-Trent City Council
We are being held over a barrel by the council and there is nothing any of us can do about it.
We can do something
Like the rest of the country grit has run out, and every council is clambering for grit supplies. Now that the Government has stepped in, contracts with each council are on hold and basically the government say what grit goes where.
For the time being the only thing we can do is to work together as a community to get the roads sorted.
Litigation
Well myself Popeye and Paul cleared and gritted most of Mustang on Saturday only for it to be covered again Sunday but good luck to anyone that tried to sue us if they slipped fell or had a prang.
Also scools have a problem , the kids want to go out at play time but teachers will not let the because if they have an accident the school is liable. Its a mad sad world.
Road Clearing
I know the feeling, clearing roads for them soon to be covered again, and people saying, why bother, but it does at least make it easier when you live in dangerous positions on the two estates for trying to get home. We did ours to make it easier for cars to get round the corner. I prefer to walk on clear paths / roads to ones covered in snow.
You are right with the kids however my sons school isn't allowed out to play even if it rains so snow is a no go although he hasn't moaned today about not being able to go out (yes the school finally re-opened today!) Lets see how long it stays open for next week given the forecast on www.weather.co.uk (the head did send an apologetic letter home tonight.)
True Grit
WM
I can't do an actual reply to your 1st quote on this subject but one comment
"We need every fella" - I am sure that us women are just as capable as you fella's in assisting with shoveling snow!!!!! am sure the extra hands would be helpful!
Sorry
Sorry. And Ladies.
An article from the Sentinel
I think this article maybe worth looking at.
Can you be Sued??????
http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/letters/lose-neighbours-don-t-help/...
Web Monkey Can we set up a poll on how many would consider helping clean up the roads. Also if there is a possibility of being sued how much would it cost to get some simple public liability insurance, we could maybe do this as a group.
Council have 2 days of grit left
GRIT reserves could run out in two days as a council searches for new suppliers.
Forecasters are predicting the big freeze could continue for up to two weeks.
Local authorities are working around the clock to try to ensure the safety of main routes, but the salt and grit supplies are dwindling and motorists are being warned the treacherous road conditions could get worse.
Health officials are also warning the weather is putting elderly and vulnerable people at risk, and that everyone should do their bit to care for those around them.
Councillor Brian Ward, Stoke-on-Trent City Council cabinet member for regeneration, said: "We currently have enough road salt for around two days and are constantly sourcing new supplies.
Read the following story on the sentinel for more info
http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/news/Snowfall-ice-piling-pressure-g...
Joan Walley in the house of commons today - access to salt
Joan Walley: While I urge my right hon. Friend to look at the whole
issue of distribution and access to salt supplies, may I add that there
is a real issue with the nitty-gritty-if I dare say that-of all this?
Local people cannot understand why their pavements are not being
gritted. I urge him to see whether there is some way to make information
available so that local people know what standard of service...
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2010-01-07a.271.0&s=speaker%3A...
Fill the bins PLEEESe
Dear Joan if the council fill the bins we can help them by doing the streets our selves. You know its the community spirit this goverment is always on about trying to foster. But most of the time Goverment local and national can not see the wood for the trees.
I keep on hearing there is a recession on
I keep on hearing theres a recession on, as an excuse for lack of resources before the event.
Well if there is a recession on you'd think it would be even more important to keep industry going, by allowing people to get to work, so millions each day of productivity isn't wasted.
Shutting schools has a massive effect on the working day as people with Children are left to make alternative child care arrangements (usually a parent having to take a day of work).
A person I know whose wife works in Alsager had to have tuesday off work due to her childs school closing and her boss was really funny about it when she said she couldn't make it into work. The alternative would have been to take all of her kids out of a warm house, drive off our estate and gain access to the congested Reg Mitch Way in unsafe conditions. Up through Golden Hill and into Kidsgrove where her parents live.
Even though access to Kidsgrove was impassable as Kidsgrove Bank was closed. But if she did manage it she'd then have to get over a further 5 miles to Alsager.
What can you do? Get bad points at work, or stay at home and keep everyone safe? Not through fault of your own but bad planning.
Not giving the people grit to keep the estates and side streets open is completely inadequate. Now as we all know our grit bins were filled by the council on Christmas Eve (to the top? I don't know !?) and according to sources all of the grit was stolen that very same day (hour possibly because I checked twice throughout the day and there was none) - but it must have taken some time to empty all three bins without anyone seeing anything.
PLEASE LET US KNOW IF YOU SAW ANYTHING UNTOWARD SUCH AS GRIT BINS BEING FILLED OR EMPTIED
So our estate has now been without grit since the 17th of December bad weather hit us, longer in act as they were all but empty in the first place and aren't going to get filled until this is all over.
Can I just stop to say I fully understand there is a lack of grit salt for all councils as the demand has been higher than they ever believed or planned for, and the mines have run low of their stockpiles and everything we get now is freshly mined.
So what can we do.
1. Get off your arses.
Organise into groups to work on the roads our selves. Even if the stretch of road you live in front of is clear chances are you have to travel over a section that isn't. Help clear the worst parts off. Theres 350 houses on our two estates, yet there is only a small collection of people doing anything to tackle the roads.
2. Accountability
Make sure there is a full review afterwards that will be white washed until it happens again and again.
West Lothian Council and Police investigate grit thefts
Police probe region's great grit robbery
POLICE are investigating a spate of grit thefts as supplies came close to running out across the Lothians, it emerged today.
Council chiefs, who have been inundated with complaints about untreated roads and pavements, say private firms were spotted emptying the grit bins as soon as they were filled.
It comes as the grit crisis led to a series of road accidents, bins going uncollected for more than three weeks in parts of Edinburgh, and even city supermarkets running out of table salt.
In a survey, readers were asked "Have you ever been tempted to steal salt from a roadside grit bin?"
No, stealing is stealing. It’s wrong
23%
Oh, sorry, I thought you were meant to just help yourself
65%
Only when my dinner tastes really bland
13%
Grit
It would be brilliant if we had grit in the grit bins.
People here seem to think that putting grit down will resolve the problems we have at the moment, it will not. We need to first remove all the snow / ice off the road prior to applying grit onto the cleaned surface, this will prevent re-icing.
Given the current weather conditions without the grit to prevent the roads re-icing overnight we could make matters worse rather than better.
Anyway after all that, I would definately be in to help.
Making it worse?
It's a choice between thick compressed ice like we have now, or fresh overnight thin ice.
Thin ice has a better chance of melting.
Getting Grit
Is there any chance the nice councillor could meet a few of us at the grit depot and we could then get enough to keep the roads as ice free as possible?
No can do
Megan phoned yesterday, saying they weren't meant to do that, and even if they could all grit is now going to major roads only.
If you need some grit however, just head off to Alsager as they are throwing it freely onto the pavements there, in great big clumps.
Eh?
I've just heard, live on BBC Midlands Today, that Stoke are gritting side roads and pavements??????????????????????????????????
Does anyone know if this is true? I've only been on the estate, Reg Mitch, A500 and road to work - which is gritted by work.
According to the papers and Council
According to the papers and Council the grit supply is about to run out (tomorrow night - by the looks of it), so maybe the beeb must have read this site and heard that Alsager were wasting grit like no ones business, and thought it was Stoke-on-Trent because of it's postcode.
who knows
I'm guessing the beeb just said what the council told them, they don't want to appear inadequate, so they lied.
I've had a go at the road by my house today, I was just going to do some of my drive, then got a bit carried away. Cheers to the bloke who told me it was pointless, and why didn't I get cat litter - well, that'll break up quickly, and my neighbour's shovel is cheaper. If I've made the road worse, my apologies, I thought I'd try it and see, I can always put the stuff back
I'll probably do a bit more tomorrow, while the sun is on that bit of road, it is a good work-out
Well, I'll only do a bit more if it isn't as icy as the rest of the road tomorrow.
Oh yes, and I didn't do the pavement, as I couldn't get through the base layer of ice, so I would have made that worse. The area I did do, I covered back up with the snow I shifted.
New delivery
Just noticed this in The Sentinel
http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/news/Council-s-grit-supply-days/art...
Semi-Thaw
We appear to be having a bit of a slight thaw this morning.
Unfortunately, that means that the compacted snow on the roads is turning to slush, which is much harder to drive on. It might be an idea for people on tricky parts of the estate; such as bends and hills; to grab a shovel and clear some of the slush away before it gets snowed on again. It's a lot easier to drive on fresh snow than fresh snow on top of slush, as many may have found out last weekend.
Drive around, stupid driving
I've just had a drive around both estates to see how things were.
Heritage Park - Spitfire looks to be clearing up nicely, although the top of spitfire still looks quite bad.
All of the side streets look quite bad, boston and hurriance looked really bad. I wouldn't fancy driving on them every day.
Swallows Rise is fairing better, with most of the first part of the estate being completely clear. William Coltman Way for the most part is thawing well. The stretch past the speed bump of John Rhodes Way is still iced over, although as Janet said it should start thawing soon so it will be easier to hack away at the remaining ice. (Theres nothing more satisfactory than a large lump of ice clearing under your spade).
The top part of John Rhodes Way is pure ice. Cars are mostly parked on one side, and didn't look to be thawing out.
So when I travelled along the flat top stretch, I was supprised to see a old lady in a blue car not bother to respect the cars parked on her side, and just come through the gap I was travelling through. To that lady - your a menace and a muppet! Luckley after a second or two the brakes did take hold (I was only doing 10mph). In future please use some common sense when driving in icy conditions
Keeping the roads clear.
Why don't we have every resident placing a bedsheet over the road outside their property at say, 11.00 pm.
In the morning, we could set our alarms, say for 6.00 am, and then take said sheets off the road thereby leaving the road perfectly clear for driving on.
If we all use King sized sheets, the work could be done quickly, although those of you with only single or double sheets would also make a difference.
Keeping the roads clear.
Why don't we have every resident placing a bedsheet over the road outside their property at say, 11.00 pm.
In the morning, we could set our alarms, say for 6.00 am, and then take said sheets off the road thereby leaving the road perfectly clear for driving on.
If we all use King sized sheets, the work could be done quickly, although those of you with only single or double sheets would also make a difference.
Dungwit wrote:Why don't we
[quote=Dungwit]Why don't we have every resident placing a bedsheet over the road outside their property at say, 11.00 pm.
In the morning, we could set our alarms, say for 6.00 am, and then take said sheets off the road thereby leaving the road perfectly clear for driving on.
If we all use King sized sheets, the work could be done quickly, although those of you with only single or double sheets would also make a difference.[/quote]
Your point????
janet-k wrote:Dungwit
[quote=janet-k][quote=Dungwit]Why don't we have every resident placing a bedsheet over the road outside their property at say, 11.00 pm.
In the morning, we could set our alarms, say for 6.00 am, and then take said sheets off the road thereby leaving the road perfectly clear for driving on.
If we all use King sized sheets, the work could be done quickly, although those of you with only single or double sheets would also make a difference.[/quote]
Your point????[/quote]
You can think of a better way to keep the roads clear?
Dungwit wrote:janet-k
[quote=Dungwit][quote=janet-k][quote=Dungwit]Why don't we have every resident placing a bedsheet over the road outside their property at say, 11.00 pm.
In the morning, we could set our alarms, say for 6.00 am, and then take said sheets off the road thereby leaving the road perfectly clear for driving on.
If we all use King sized sheets, the work could be done quickly, although those of you with only single or double sheets would also make a difference.[/quote]
Your point????[/quote]
You can think of a better way to keep the roads clear?[/quote]
I do not think that " She who must be obeyed" would take kindly to her bed sheets being laid across the road. Especially after a few cars had driven over them , got them caught in the running gear and tore them to shreds, Road would still be covered in ice. Great idea , very little though behind it.
The big American pick up truck parked half on the pavement at the bottom of Mustang totally obscures the view of Spitfire and makes it many more time difficult and dangerous to pull out especially as the junction is covered on ice.
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